tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post840724388584082716..comments2024-03-28T03:40:29.423-04:00Comments on Passage des Perles: Is this outfit too Jung on me?Duchessehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-16231024196670056142011-04-10T15:35:33.723-04:002011-04-10T15:35:33.723-04:00tinyjunco: Most of my comment above was lost, some...tinyjunco: Most of my comment above was lost, somehow. <br /><br />It does not "bother me how someone else dresses", I just don't enjoy the effect. One of the women states she "does not give a shit" what people think, and I am guessing she's not alone. <br /><br />When I'm around women dressed like them, I can't wait to get away, as I'm uncomfortable being around the stares, even peripherally. And they do get them, even in the middle of NYC.<br /><br />There are other people I don't like being around for the same reason, for example my sons, who insisted on wearing certain t-shirts when they were teens-and they didn't give a shit what I thought, either.<br /><br />re "there seems to be a great attraction to the idea of wisdom, sophistication, and self-containment increasing with one's years": <br /><br />I am attracted to wisdom in others and aspire to glimmers of it myself; it gives me the goal of continued growth. <br /><br />As I said in the post, the prizing of flamboyance-which I see as the opposing quality to what you call "self-containment" and I would call restraint-is about ego.<br /><br />Finally, "sophistication" is relative, depends on where you are and how you live. Standing in a vegetable garden, I wouldn't wear silk either. <br /><br />But I *would* be interested in taking care of my appearance and general health. <br /><br />Caring about one's appearance shows one is engaged with life. It's one of the signs oncologists look for in patients, and the basis of the Look Good, Feel Better program.<br /><br />If your 72 year old mother is terrified of spilling wine on her blouse, perhaps a washable knit (and a spray bottle of Wine-Away) would help her feel that she looks great.Duchessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-18030857661642001232011-04-10T11:56:45.241-04:002011-04-10T11:56:45.241-04:00tinyjunco: While appearances may be misleading, it...tinyjunco: While appearances may be misleading, it is input upon which people make inferences, accurate or not.Duchessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-75730832299945489032011-04-10T11:33:01.010-04:002011-04-10T11:33:01.010-04:00"When a woman says "I don't want to ..."When a woman says "I don't want to dress like a dreary old lady", she means it. And she may mean that on a number of levels. The most obvious concern is that she does not want, as so many commenters said, to "be invisible"."<br /><br />huh. to me the most obvious concern is that she doesn't want to be DREARY, as in lacking in fun, or dare i say, 'joy'.<br /><br />it's interesting to see the vehement aversion that the 'Nowness' video brought up in many people. a chunk of it, imo, comes down to culture, place, context. in Fresno, CA (my birthplace) these ladies would be outrageously out of place. but in NY, they stand out, but not all that much. and others have mentioned the theatre/arts connection.<br /><br />there seems to be a great attraction to the idea of wisdom, sophistication, and self-containment increasing with one's years. but what if you're a klutz with skin troubles, three hairy dogs, a veggie garden which needs tending, and an absolutely brilliant talent for saying the one true obvious thing that 'everyone' is petrified to mention? my 72 year old mom could dress in subtle silks with one tasteful necklace, she'd no doubt photograph well but i'd wonder 'who the heck IS that woman?' <br /><br />and she'd be terrified of spilling wine on her blouse.<br /><br />which is just to say that we're all different, and aging may well increase those differences, rather than smoothing them out. just because something is anathema to you doesn't mean others won't take to it like a duck to water. i don't understand why it bothers anyone else how someone dresses.<br /><br />re: Mrs. B, i knew one woman of Mrs. B's age who dressed in that very style. she happened to be one of the most notorious attention-hogs i've ever known. what's it all mean? maybe that you can't judge by appearances....tinyjuncohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03614867046924013061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-36404862643157124162011-04-06T18:37:26.431-04:002011-04-06T18:37:26.431-04:00Oh, that's wasn't me that said something a...Oh, that's wasn't me that said something about losing the people I love--at least not on this thread. No wonder I was confused. I understand your mother's comment, but just didn't understand it in relation to my post because it was not in response to my post. Thanks for the explanation.Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12756033682201519150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-71210199784204505142011-04-06T17:23:13.698-04:002011-04-06T17:23:13.698-04:00LPC: Yes, my remark was for Susan Tiner; thanks.LPC: Yes, my remark was for Susan Tiner; thanks.Duchessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-58106196686129162952011-04-06T17:22:12.083-04:002011-04-06T17:22:12.083-04:00lagatta: Depends where you are. When I spent time ...lagatta: Depends where you are. When I spent time in Florida with my parents, "senior's discounts" (rental cars, movies, many shops and restaurants) were offered at 55! I am, at 62, getting them now (but more comes to us Canadians at 65; we're moderate in our age categories, too.) I much prefer claiming "old" rather than coy terms like "golden ager" or the worst, references to "68 (or whatever) years young". <br /><br />Whether one has a soul or not is a matter of belief, but... is there a dark night of the neuron?Duchessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-50051655578950644492011-04-06T16:39:21.893-04:002011-04-06T16:39:21.893-04:00I'll definitely be reading some of these - wit...I'll definitely be reading some of these - with the caveat that as a Surrealist, I am rather vehemently anti-Jungian and anti-anything that sneaks in a Soul or supernatural... That does not preclude important insights. <br /><br />I do fear I'd find some of the stuff rather quietist - I'm more about raging, not going quietly into the night... <br /><br />I do have practical problems with women almost exactly my age (and I'm a smidgen older than LPC) calling ourselves "old". I'm well aware of lifespans, but also of the very difficult labour market and I refuse absolutely to accept the negatively-connotated label "old" until I have reached the age when I can enjoy some material benefits such as the Canada Pension, reduced public transport fare, etc. <br /><br />Coffeeaddict, I do want to look sexy. I think being sexual, or "hot" is an important facet of being vital and alive (being a materialist and all). I don't necessarily mean doing the deed - that depends on what is available and whether a relationship available meets our needs - mais de dormir le coeur ouvert. I do think sexiness is very narrowly defined and commoditised nowadays, and it is not just a matter of middle-aged and older women avoiding looking like the proverbial mutton dressed as lamb. <br /><br />The way teens and very young adult women seem to be expected to dress nowadays has really become a rather cheap display, and I think it is because of the influence of pornography and the idea that everything is for sale. <br /><br />Very thought-provoking topic.lagatta à montréalhttp://www.lemab.canoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-18781633298841797322011-04-06T12:40:56.240-04:002011-04-06T12:40:56.240-04:00Two different Susans, two different remarks, that&...Two different Susans, two different remarks, that's the confusion above, I believe.LPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18209861350905135093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-75572299362020978182011-04-06T09:19:03.248-04:002011-04-06T09:19:03.248-04:00Susan: My comment was in response to yours about &...Susan: My comment was in response to yours about "losing the people I love". My mother said that at 99, she had no close friends left, and since she believed she would see them in the next world, the prospect of a reunion made it easier to leave this one.<br /><br />Tiffany: Trying to retain what we prize is human, but at a certain point, the external beauty of each of us will change. I find people in their 80s and beyond beautiful, but not in the way of youth.<br /><br />Terri: See:<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_(psychology)<br /><br />Francie: Thank you; it was one of those that wrote itself.Duchessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-67480100065028145302011-04-06T09:09:37.623-04:002011-04-06T09:09:37.623-04:00I just want to thank you for this post, Duchesse, ...I just want to thank you for this post, Duchesse, and to thank the commenters too. All your remarks resonate with me. Really this is an amazing post. Thank you.<br /><br />Franciewilliamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04025284630732323591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-5651063838672640602011-04-06T01:48:24.368-04:002011-04-06T01:48:24.368-04:00Is it possible that our "shadow self" is...Is it possible that our "shadow self" is one who loves to play dress up? I know that I struggle with invisibility...but I also have a renewed sense of my childishness in my "middle age."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-75726733460219445052011-04-05T22:29:36.201-04:002011-04-05T22:29:36.201-04:00Fascinating stuff. I think what I am searching for...Fascinating stuff. I think what I am searching for as I get older is what so many others mention, a sense of authenticity. My mother - having been a rather beautiful young woman - strove to maintain youth and visibility, in a way that I found painful to watch. I wish for more grace and authenticity for myself, however they manifest themselves.Tiffanyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11536212906241844509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-21365361753997908562011-04-05T20:45:55.532-04:002011-04-05T20:45:55.532-04:00Duchesse, I don't understand your comment:
...Duchesse, I don't understand your comment:<br /><br /><br />" My mother said the losses made it easier for her to leave, and I think she meant it."<br /><br />Can you explain. I certainly don't consider having "remnants of beauty" to be a loss. I would consider it a loss if I did not have the opportunity to grow older. Maybe I misunderstood your comment.Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12756033682201519150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-30074466648896234242011-04-05T19:09:30.891-04:002011-04-05T19:09:30.891-04:00laurieann: I find many concerns about dress are in...laurieann: I find many concerns about dress are in fact the tip of an iceberg, and the essence is avoided in our culture. Thanks for sending the post along.<br /><br />Belle: Hollis is the more accessible, but not "pop". I respect that sometimes you like to feel invisible, I feel that way too. It's calm there.<br /><br />Rubi: Yes, that's true about any activity, I realize from your comment.<br /><br />Lynda: I am touched that the quote resonated with you. Forty years ago I would not have had these thoughts, either.<br /><br />LPC: I am moved by your forthright self-honouring. And your reply! I too respond to friends who try to reassure me that I am "not old"; I am, and am lucky to be here.<br /><br />Susan: My mother said the losses made it easier for her to leave, and I think she meant it.<br /><br />materfamilias: Know what you mean about blogging or responding while on vacation. Just have fun and I'll catch up with you in a month or so!Duchessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-10175566601690976212011-04-05T15:23:47.404-04:002011-04-05T15:23:47.404-04:00I'm on holiday, as you know, and trying not to...I'm on holiday, as you know, and trying not to spend too much time reading and commenting on blogs -- not really fair to Pater. But I do want you to know how much I appreciate this post -- we've had some charming conversations here with women in their 70s and 80s, and I continue to think about my mother and his, and my own movement closer to that stage. I find it all quite interesting, honestly. . . not frightening yet, at least.materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-8136234519922220742011-04-05T14:58:34.671-04:002011-04-05T14:58:34.671-04:00One of the best pieces of advice I was given by a ...One of the best pieces of advice I was given by a fantastic coach and mentor I trained with for 7 years was "make friends with your ego". It seems to have worked as I become more harmonious and accepting as the grey hairs (which I actually like) multiply.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08902418849121978821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-18729829331850310592011-04-05T14:02:06.150-04:002011-04-05T14:02:06.150-04:00LPC, I'm with you---will be 59 in a couple of ...LPC, I'm with you---will be 59 in a couple of weeks and letting my long hair turn white. I like it that way and think it fits with my softening face. I like the phrase "remnants of pretty." It sounds charming.Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12756033682201519150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-75118754766684984332011-04-05T13:49:02.141-04:002011-04-05T13:49:02.141-04:00I am so glad I found your blog!
I love this post....I am so glad I found your blog!<br /><br />I love this post. Must read Hollis and Woodman.<br /><br />Like Mardel, I prefer quiet and unassuming, for the freedom, and don't mind invisibility at all.<br /><br />Unlike LPC, I don't mind the thought of death at all. It will come, in its time, at the end of a long journey, and I believe it will feel like coming home.<br /><br />What I do mind is thought of losing any of the people I love. I shudder to think of it.Susan Tinerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11900811284963063686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-12834524407559096572011-04-05T12:14:41.326-04:002011-04-05T12:14:41.326-04:00I've been thinking about this a lot, what with...I've been thinking about this a lot, what with letting my long hair go gray. I find I like the way I look in the mirror, and I even feel more beautiful. I certainly look older. But I'd rather look like a hot, remnants of pretty, intelligent, 54-year old than a trying-hard 48-year old.<br /><br />When I say, "I'm old," and people say, "You're not old," I say back, "Yes I am. I am in very late middle age and coming up to early old age. But old is not bad." <br /><br />The only bad part about this early old age era is that death is closer. I do not want to die. Not one little bit. And that part is sad, to have to close my eyes forever. But the gray hair, in my opinion, hot. I look like I know something. Which is always sexy.LPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18209861350905135093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-1955584323209648352011-04-05T11:53:06.055-04:002011-04-05T11:53:06.055-04:00Wonderful post, Duchesse. As I age I find that I d...Wonderful post, Duchesse. As I age I find that I dress for myself. I am trying to love my body and dressing it as it is now, not 40 years ago. I will get Hollis's book and put Ram Dass's quote up on my mirror.<br />Thank you for sharing your wisdom.Lyndanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-59270087906160289192011-04-05T11:43:05.183-04:002011-04-05T11:43:05.183-04:00I read a bit of Hollis today, just before reading ...I read a bit of Hollis today, just before reading this post. Wonderful to be in the same vein. I'm grateful to you for this post.<br /><br />In my opinion, soulful dressing is a lot like soulful eating (or soulful exercise, soulful communication, etc.). Not so much about should and shouldn't, but about what one really needs and wants to feel fulfilled. Both also require a certain amount of presence, or centeredness, in order to hear the Soul's answer when we ask, "What do I really want?"Rubiatontahttp://rubiatonta.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-75747163725706057152011-04-05T11:13:42.019-04:002011-04-05T11:13:42.019-04:00Excellent post! Now I need to read Hollis and Wood...Excellent post! Now I need to read Hollis and Woodman.<br />Thank you for that very touching quote by Ram Dass. <br />The older I get the more I dress (up or down) for myself, not for what I think others are expecting of me.<br />But honestly, sometimes I love being invisible and dress accordingly. I don't always need to pronounce myself by dressing to be noticed.Belle de Villehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14045827018848979761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-25744516527958190122011-04-05T11:03:49.832-04:002011-04-05T11:03:49.832-04:00This has to be my favorite post of yours of all ti...This has to be my favorite post of yours of all time Duchesse! I've been a fan of the Jungians for decades now and Hollis is one of my favorites. Can honestly say I never thought about the relationship of ego-self in the context of dressing but I can certainly see it now. <br /><br />For me it comes down to, I Want to Be Seen by Myself. In other words, I want to not be invisible to my 'self.' Make my deeper self easier to access and more integrated into daily life. How we dress can help with that process if we are dressing in accord with who we are becoming.<br /><br />Like Pseu, I went right for your perfect sentences on visibility. I'm sending it to my therapist.laurieannnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-41162217225793923912011-04-05T10:58:31.150-04:002011-04-05T10:58:31.150-04:00Gretchen: Thank you for your point about all ages,...Gretchen: Thank you for your point about all ages, well said!<br /><br />Jane W: I am honoured. Hollis' book is deep and in places unsettling, as he is unafraid to address the struggles of living.Duchessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-7545401904599601682011-04-05T10:55:09.203-04:002011-04-05T10:55:09.203-04:00coffeeaddict: Your last line distills what I'd...coffeeaddict: Your last line distills what I'd intended to say.<br /><br />Deja Pseu: Thanks; I've enjoyed how we have bounced off each other's thoughts.<br /><br />Mardel: It is true for me too that quiet unassuming pieces offer more freedom. And I think the women who dress in eccentric garb all the time are likely practiced and comfortable doing it, they have built their eye and wardrobe.<br /><br />C./Anonymous: Oh, I saw that doc! It is the empathic presence, and the connection between them, sheer grace. Your last line is such a gift.<br /><br />MeiluMary: Hmm, I spent some time thinking abut your comment and what I wore at 25: minis, tiny dresses and coats, and to the theatre, leggings with a man's Victorian nightshirt and over the knee turquoise suede boots. <br /><br />now I do dress "in a different spirit", more quietly and with far more insistence on quality and fit.<br /><br />But more significantly, I then literally bought into the idea of consuming, wanting something new, and the latest thing. I was a good little consumer who would drop an entire paycheque on a new outfit- now I am not.Duchessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.com