tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post6694592315329163195..comments2024-03-28T03:40:29.423-04:00Comments on Passage des Perles: Decoding a 'simple life', Part Two: Times changeDuchessehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-86488276993906073592013-10-07T20:11:39.124-04:002013-10-07T20:11:39.124-04:00I enjoyed this post and all of the comments, but I...I enjoyed this post and all of the comments, but I'm not sure I have a definite opinion on this so I will refrain from commenting :). <br /><br />I do think economic activity is important for every aspect of human life.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15711792521348799922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-29207247546384027522013-10-05T19:07:31.977-04:002013-10-05T19:07:31.977-04:00Well yes, and obviously there are wealthy people w...Well yes, and obviously there are wealthy people who do a great deal of good for the planet. I'm sorry if that came across as a bit too mechanical. lagatta à montréalhttp://www.montrealcyclechic.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-89439469513576028472013-10-05T14:44:59.237-04:002013-10-05T14:44:59.237-04:00lagatta: While having a high income does not guara...lagatta: While having a high income does not guarantee high consumption, it certainly enables it, and, as Agnes and Anon@2:51 have noted, there is social pressure to "move up" or conform in many circles. <br /><br />One person's overconsumption is another's requisite, which is why such topics unleash defensiveness. Duchessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-41144975961018128542013-10-05T14:19:39.283-04:002013-10-05T14:19:39.283-04:00Thanks Duchesse. It is important to me that you ...Thanks Duchesse. It is important to me that you understand I was understanding an analysis, but not claiming it as my own. I think the sense of community is important if a nation is to be strong. That should give you some indication of my political opinions in our current crisis in the United States. Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12756033682201519150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-31119391273945605632013-10-05T08:21:07.060-04:002013-10-05T08:21:07.060-04:00Susan: It is not you who initially called them &qu...Susan: It is not you who initially called them "takers", but I wanted to follow that label to its implications (and my inference); since you responded saying you understood that judgment, you received my reply. <br /><br />The value of "common weal"- the notion of public good- is hard to discern in that anonymous comment- but present in yours.Duchessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-90445581684091990522013-10-05T08:12:16.014-04:002013-10-05T08:12:16.014-04:00cgk; I was talking with a couple a short wile ago,...cgk; I was talking with a couple a short wile ago, and the man said, "You really like to shop, don;t you". I said that I hardly ever buy, but I love to look, to see what is made (and how), much like touring a museum, so when I do choose, I'm informed and thoughtful.<br /><br />This notion seemed utterly alien to him. <br /><br />Dog bed- would want one I could wash but I'd be thinking of mink pillows for my own bed or sofa, or yum, a mink vest to pop on with jeans.Duchessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-2193694052024177002013-10-05T07:46:32.259-04:002013-10-05T07:46:32.259-04:00Jean S., I agree about the "shop, shop, shop&...Jean S., I agree about the "shop, shop, shop' drumbeat - it's difficult to avoid isn't it? <br /><br />Yes, a dog bed, not a dog coat. Ridiculous, maybe, but not as ridiculous as me wearing a full length mink while walking the dog. Really, what was I thinking?<br /><br />Shopping and acquisition can be so boring. Makes for poor conversation, but if you give it some thought it is amazing how many hours of thought and conversation goes towards acquiring. I find too many conversations are about what was recently purchased and what the next purchase might be. It's boring! I'd much rather here about what someone has done rather than what they are buying.<br /><br />Btw, I've made the same error regarding rabbits. I thought they were a source of food!cgknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-26493943606229998532013-10-04T21:50:09.146-04:002013-10-04T21:50:09.146-04:00I am a big believer in community and that we all h...I am a big believer in community and that we all have a collective responsibility to contribute. This is one of the reasons I don't like the trend in my state toward toll roads etc. There is a school of thought that only those who drive on roads in a state should have to pay for them. I don't agree with this anymore than I would believe that only those with children should pay school taxes. We all have a vested interest in all children being well educated. (This is one reason I am very wary of educational vouchers instead of all tax money going solely for public schools.)<br /><br />This is an interesting discussion and I don't want to leave the impression that I am disapproving in any way of this daring and creative young couple. I don't think we have many willing takers in our society by the way. Going further would take me into political territory.Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12756033682201519150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-4513810653900221252013-10-04T20:00:29.081-04:002013-10-04T20:00:29.081-04:00I was very shocked at describing people (who work)...I was very shocked at describing people (who work) and are on lower incomes as "takers", when it is the richest who are taking a great deal from our planet, with overconsumption. (Yes, I know that was an anonymous comment). <br /><br />People who work as aides in homes for the elderly, for example, don't typically make large salaries. Neither do the many service workers our society depends on. <br /><br />I'd been reading this discussion attentively. But while anything but a "frugality" prude - like good company, food and wine far too much for that - I've always organised my life to have a very small environmental footprint, and know quite a few other people here who have done the same. Including young parents who deliberately don't have a car (yes, easier to do here in Montréal with good public transport, bicycle paths and a carshare system for "big shoppings" and travel to the countryside, but those too are choices). <br /><br />The most recent IPCC results indicate that the situation is changing even more quickly than predicted...lagatta à montréalhttp://www.montrealcyclechic.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-33910970080424039402013-10-04T19:38:16.140-04:002013-10-04T19:38:16.140-04:00Duchesse, one of the reasons I love your blogs IS ...Duchesse, one of the reasons I love your blogs IS your honesty, including mistakes made in the past. I've been there, too, in my own way. It's sobering.<br /><br />I used to work for a woman who said her goal was to die with no regrets. I'm not sure if that's possible--regrets are such a part of being human--but I'd sure like to limit the ones related to consumerism....Jean Snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-82332287815324807962013-10-04T19:17:32.359-04:002013-10-04T19:17:32.359-04:00Susan: Correct, you said you understood how they c...Susan: Correct, you said you understood how they could be called that. <br /><br />If we follow that reasoning, persons who have no children would pay no school taxes (and I guess be unconcerned about something like literacy for the entire population), those with no cars would not pay for road repairs, or perhaps a reduced amount. Persons with no interest in the arts would not pay for publicly-subsidized cultural events or institutions, nor would those who don't use a public park pay for the green space. The physically able would not pay for handicapped facilities- it goes on and on. <br /><br />It depends on to what extent one is willing to build a collective society over one that values individualism. <br /><br /> Duchessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-60693676754237628172013-10-04T19:00:50.356-04:002013-10-04T19:00:50.356-04:00I did not say that they are takers, but that I und...I did not say that they are takers, but that I understood the analysis--even though they have to pay taxes on what they make and certainly sales taxes. Let's just say that while they are paying taxes like everyone else, they will have the use of community school and roads, etc for LESS than others may pay. I'm not saying this is wrong, but that is where the idea of them being takers comes from. It's an interesting way to criticize someone who chooses to live on less. Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12756033682201519150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-5566821354830089892013-10-04T17:24:23.495-04:002013-10-04T17:24:23.495-04:00Susan: They are paying taxes proportionate to thei...Susan: They are paying taxes proportionate to their income, and on virtually every single thing they buy, same as you.<br /><br />Just because they do not generate a high income does not mean they do not contribute. By consciously seeking to steward scarce resources, recycle and make do with used things, they are making a qualitative contribution to the good of all- not just themselves.<br /><br />I reiterate, these people are not on welfare. Duchessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-57750618540273090202013-10-04T16:25:57.776-04:002013-10-04T16:25:57.776-04:00I think I understood the idea of the young couple ...I think I understood the idea of the young couple as "takers" to mean that since they will be living on very very little money and paying few if any taxes, others will be footing the bill for their child to go to a public (tax supported) and for the roads they will sometimes move their gypsy caravan home along. <br /><br />I do admire their youthful dream of living this way and I hope it brings them much happiness and fulfillment. I love their creativity and willingness to share their experience. <br /><br /><br />I, too, predict that they will try another lifestyle after a few years of living this way, but will have many takeaway lessons which will inform their future life.Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12756033682201519150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-44855644397451781102013-10-04T15:02:09.044-04:002013-10-04T15:02:09.044-04:00Anon@2:51: My inconsistency prompted the posts. ...Anon@2:51: My inconsistency prompted the posts. Never thought readers (who are not a young crowd) might report that they are deliberately living below their means- it's rare. <br /><br />Super-frugal people used to drive me nuts. For example, one couple I knew would share a cup of coffee in a restaurant. Now I am more accepting but still there is a type of frugality that feels either too crabbed or kind of show-offy. <br /><br />Still, even the those who irritated me have been helpful in me cleaning up my mindless habits.<br /><br /> Duchessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-7561718124028137902013-10-04T14:51:21.592-04:002013-10-04T14:51:21.592-04:00It is interesting to read the other comments and w...It is interesting to read the other comments and what I have gathered is that most of us who have simplified and decluttered our lives feel we still aren't living simply. I can wager we all have come a long way. Where I live many people work in the film industry (my husband included) and you can imagine the distorted focus on "image". One must have a large house, luxury car, and use only high end products if one wants to project an image of success. I believe my family is an anomaly since we have a small home, economy car, no debt, and don't have many expenses. It can be very tempting though to want the latest and greatest when I see my neighbors "toys". You have a great community here and very motivational. Great series!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-3730482368640451082013-10-04T13:14:25.386-04:002013-10-04T13:14:25.386-04:00cgk: All of these real-life examples intrigue and ...cgk: All of these real-life examples intrigue and hearten me. Will your dog have a mink coat for winter?<br /><br />frugal: I just horrified a new friend when I asked if her rabbits were pets or for meat. (But in my former neighbourhood several people raised them for food.)<br /><br />Jean S: Well he likes apples fine, and was sweetly generous to his own children when they were growing up, determined to be different. <br /><br />Oh, as a •bed•- I saw her dog in one of those little coats, but a minkie!Duchessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-66690014174413139682013-10-04T12:57:13.226-04:002013-10-04T12:57:13.226-04:00I've given up reading most style blogs because...I've given up reading most style blogs because of the shop shop shop drumbeat. Even many of my favorite sewing blogs get to me at times.<br /><br />That said, the other extreme can be wearying, too. (How does your brother feel about apples, all these years later?)Jean Snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-87493213686350060662013-10-04T12:52:27.172-04:002013-10-04T12:52:27.172-04:00The ultimate dog bed! HilariousThe ultimate dog bed! HilariousJean snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-18297396180864425822013-10-04T09:10:53.157-04:002013-10-04T09:10:53.157-04:00I have read both these posts with great interest (...I have read both these posts with great interest (and responses, also). It seems that everything we do/don't do and buy/don't buy has an ethical and moral dimension. I suppose we are fortunate to have the education and leisure to consider these dimensions.<br /><br />On a lighter note, my son refuses to get a car and is planning on acquiring some backyard chickens.frugalscholarhttp://frugalscholar.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-8625656187419852282013-10-04T07:46:38.268-04:002013-10-04T07:46:38.268-04:00Once I turned 40 I felt an strong urge to downsize...Once I turned 40 I felt an strong urge to downsize our possessions and set about doing it. I still struggle to sentimental items, but overall we own what we need with a few extras. No clutter, nothing stashed away out of sight and forgotten and very few items make there way into our household without some mulling. We live in a 4 bedroom house, but could downsize to a one bedroom quite easily. The only thing I item I have leftover from my profligate days are a full length mink coat (80s) and I think I might pass that on to the dog.cgknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-27205783190374951702013-10-03T20:11:51.774-04:002013-10-03T20:11:51.774-04:00Great series of posts - I love reading the comment...Great series of posts - I love reading the comments too!<br /><br />It's interesting watching my kids. Kid 1 is 16 and he seems to be a pared-down person by nature. He has no desire for 'stuff' whatsoever. He buys a few of items of clothing - the best quality he can afford, never super-cheap - and wears them until they are worn out. He does have a smartphone and a laptop, but actually had the phone forced on him and needs the computer for school. He goes to school with very wealthy kids, but simply doesn't appear to care that our house is tiny, we have only one car, etc. He is frugal (packs his own lunches when he goes skating for the day!) and healthy. <br /><br />Kid 2 has just turned 13 and seems to be more of a packrat and freer with her money, but I wonder if this will change as she begins earning her own money ... Her friends seem to be much more extravagant and there have been a few comments about how everyone else (at school) has 2 cars and huge houses and swimming pools. I just shrug and say 'not us'. Tiffanynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-9316567726802737392013-10-03T17:11:45.971-04:002013-10-03T17:11:45.971-04:00LPC: Having long read your blog, I sorta knew that...LPC: Having long read your blog, I sorta knew that ;)<br /><br />Wendy: You had me right up to the part about jewels (kidding). Thanks for the appreciation.<br /><br />Gretchen: This is an area in which I have a ways to go. My student son showed up in a sweatshirt the other day, about 3-4 times what I thought it should cost. "But", he said, "made locally!" I had to really stop and take a deep breath- yikes, a moment of reckoning.Duchessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-33388649723095280712013-10-03T17:07:18.651-04:002013-10-03T17:07:18.651-04:00Gripping discussion going on here . It seems to me...Gripping discussion going on here . It seems to me that it is a normal need to accumulate in our youth , we want to establish ourselves & gather security , Later , many of us find our values changing & feel that consumption doesn't bring us happiness . Bigger houses , faster cars & lavish jewels just don't seem important . Like most wisdom , this cannot be taught , it must be learnt . I hope that doesn't sound pompous , I have plenty of weaknesses , but I do admire your young relatives . Keep giving us pause for thought .<br />WendyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-25497314872718715492013-10-03T14:13:25.189-04:002013-10-03T14:13:25.189-04:00Yes, I meant to validate your point, while also cl...Yes, I meant to validate your point, while also clarifying. What I mean is that "having stuff" isn't morally problematic until we determine the hows and the whys of the stuff. The "simplicity" movement is often just that, too simple.<br /><br />And, am I defending myself? Of course!LPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18209861350905135093noreply@blogger.com