tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post3495621445920597866..comments2024-03-16T13:04:56.689-04:00Comments on Passage des Perles: 50+ style: The eccentric, the elegant and the space in betweenDuchessehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comBlogger62125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-24205780653305947342011-07-19T19:22:42.820-04:002011-07-19T19:22:42.820-04:00wendeleh1: I would you say you, in your comment&qu...wendeleh1: I would you say you, in your comment"psychologize" as much as I may. <br /><br />You say that I am writing "to be read by others" and that "I want attention to be paid" to my work"? In fact, this perception is quite inaccurate. I would write if no one read this.<br /><br />I stand by my assertion that elder women in eccentric dress convey a desperate desire to be looked at,to not be invisible- whether they intend that or not. <br /><br />Most elder women no longer choose to dress the way they did when they were younger, whether that was arty-eccentric or babelicious (or other genres). You might call that ageist, I'd say a woman is wise to realize there's a time for certain effects and a time when they no longer serve her well.Duchessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-30565958821762624382011-07-19T17:54:38.773-04:002011-07-19T17:54:38.773-04:00Long-time lurker, de-lurking for the second time t...Long-time lurker, de-lurking for the second time today.<br /><br />First, I need to say how much I admire your blog. It's probably my favorite place on the internet right now. Although I sometimes disagree with your opinions, you are consistently entertaining and even thought-provoking. This blog goes way beyond what clothes we wear.<br /><br />Regarding the women in the film, I think you are right to say "they intend a different mode of expression." I don't see a problem with their desire that attention to be paid to their creations. Your blog is your creation. Surely you aren't just writing this for self-expression--you're writing to be read by others. You want attention to be paid to your work. That's perfectly natural. <br /><br />I also think for you to say in effect that only the young can pull off Eccentric is a bit ageist. So it's okay for a young woman to demand to be looked at but for a older woman it seems desperate? That's over-simplified and over-generalized. Watching the film, I simply didn't see desperation on anyone's face. On the contrary, those women all looked like they were having fun with fashion. They looked like they were still enjoying life. The two women whose dress you approved of did not. <br /><br />I wish you would have taken what those glorious women said about their mode of dress at face value, judged their clothes as you saw fit, and left the psychology out of it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-88507168647574217432011-04-07T08:36:33.905-04:002011-04-07T08:36:33.905-04:00Lizzie: You sound like a woman I would smile at wi...Lizzie: You sound like a woman I would smile at with complete appreciation and delight if I saw you, crossing the street.<br /><br />There is a point where "creative self-expression" becomes so blatant that it works against a woman; her attire is seen, not her. That is the level I see in some of the women in the video, but clearly other commenters think it's not over the top.Duchessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-34936934843297517482011-04-06T23:35:32.898-04:002011-04-06T23:35:32.898-04:00Fascinating film; great discussion! An African Am...Fascinating film; great discussion! An African American attorney, 56 years old, size 16W, I find myself interested in expressing myself through fashion--but not to the extent of these NYC mavens. Because of my job, I have to meet my client's expectations (they want their attorney to inspire confidence and to exude competence), but I manage to do it MY WAY. Rather than wear eccentric accessories head to toe, I discretely hide silver ornaments in my shoulder-length dreadlocks; I have 2 extra piercings in one ear, in which I might wear interesting hoops or small dangles. I always wear at least 6 or 7 silver bangles on one wrist. And my eyewear is always a little quirky (right now I'm sporting tortise cat eye glasses!). I may never be as eccentric as the ladies in the film, but at my age, I feel I am making my own personal statement of style, and have not surrendered my sense of humor or fun. Not yet, anyway!Lizzienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-62694516695066944172011-04-05T21:16:45.313-04:002011-04-05T21:16:45.313-04:00The beach! I know what you mean. Our church is a b...The beach! I know what you mean. Our church is a bit tony -- most people dress up but some take casual to the extreme. I do believe that dressing up can signal exclusivity. One yelp reviewer mentioned visiting in dockers and a Hawaiian shirt and feeling like "a glazed donut in a box of scones." He never came back and that's a shame because the dressed up people are very friendly.<br /><br />Thanks for checking out the top. I like the idea of pairing assertive red with grey. The whole point was that jewel tones seem to work well near my face and solids are slimming so I was looking for additional ways to add interest to solid jewel tones. It's complicated!Susan Tinerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11900811284963063686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-74745184871915060942011-04-05T19:50:55.186-04:002011-04-05T19:50:55.186-04:00Susan Tiner: It may be my monitor, but that's ...Susan Tiner: It may be my monitor, but that's an aggressive red, and I'm not sure it is the best for your lovely mid-blonde hair and creamy complexion. With sparkles, it's bright! It looks like very good fabric. Sometimes wearing an assertive red with grey (not black) gentles it down a bit.<br /><br />Marieanne: When you say "ethnic", regarding the women in the video, to which ethnicity are you referring?<br /><br />I love to see people dress for any worship service, and feel uncomfortable being in a service where some congregants look like they have come directly from the beach.Duchessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-17588989182522683932011-04-05T13:38:15.643-04:002011-04-05T13:38:15.643-04:00I did get a post up with a photo of that red spark...I did get a post up with a photo of that red sparkly top and would love to know if you agree with Pseu that it's very festive, meaning probably too festive.Susan Tinerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11900811284963063686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-21320898614049860882011-04-05T12:16:05.111-04:002011-04-05T12:16:05.111-04:00An extra 'e' if you please, dear Duchesse....An extra 'e' if you please, dear Duchesse. :)<br /><br />To be clear, in my estimation eccentric dress no more equals artistic - and only artistic - than simple dress equals drab - and only drab.<br /><br />My sainted mother, a working artist, former model (and ethnic New Yorker!), has a classic, quiet, elegant style which would doubtless be more consistent with that which you admire.<br /><br />Those ladies are undoubtedly pleased when they look in the mirror. How many women - at any age - can honestly say that? I think it speaks to a certain confidence which is admirable.<br /><br />Would I wear orange dinnerplate glasses? Probably not. But I applaud a woman with the courage and panache to wear them.<br /><br />This is a fascinating conversation. I have also enjoyed reading LPC's work concerning this topic - dress as an expression of socio-demographic status.<br /><br />Consider the African-American community. The idea of a woman hanging up her allure, her femininity, etc. when she reaches a certain age simply does not exist, IME. Dressing well, say, for church is a given. If you were my guest at service on any Sunday morning, you would see many of the ladies wearing gloves, and fantastic, fanciful hats coordinated with their brightly-colored suits. This is an UMC congregation and the clothing is well-tailored and luxurious. <br /><br />In fact, I remember thinking just this weekend as I saw Miss Bernice - age 85 - in her winter white wool pantsuit, gloves, and matching snap-brim fedora, that she'd not be out of place on the Advanced Style blog. She was looking pretty sharp!<br /><br />In my view, pride in one's appearance - whether you choose to express it the way my sainted mother and the Duchesse do, with elegant, simple, understated clothing; or the way the Advanced Style ladies do, with bold strokes that say 'HERE I AM WORLD' - indicates enjoyment of life. And that's a precious thing.Marieannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13148152584063870753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-81256478607941681002011-04-05T09:27:32.170-04:002011-04-05T09:27:32.170-04:00Marianne: Some of the most creative, nonconformis...Marianne: Some of the most creative, nonconformist women I've known (and some are "ethnic New Yorkers") dress very quietly. <br /><br />The women in the video have chosen a mode of dress they like, and I am guessing they know it gets looks- as one of them says "If you don't like it, I don't give a shit." So I infer that the woman who says that intends to attract attention.Duchessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-3924939870139678782011-04-05T07:17:30.782-04:002011-04-05T07:17:30.782-04:00"It seems very New York"
This, exactly...."It seems very New York"<br /><br />This, exactly. An ethnic New York aesthetic, specifically.<br /><br />I think these women are utterly fabulous. Quite clearly they are not going for the restrained elegance of Mrs. B or the Milanese - both of whom are also utterly, quietly fabulous - and so what? <br /><br />These ladies know who they are, they like who they are, they are unafraid of expressing who they are. It's a rare and beautiful thing, especially in women our age and beyond. God love 'em, they're filled with life. <br /><br />But desperate? Not seeing it. At all.Marieannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13148152584063870753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-46249949345112895262011-04-04T19:54:39.045-04:002011-04-04T19:54:39.045-04:00Anonymous @5:04: A lot of people like that film......Anonymous @5:04: A lot of people like that film... but I like it as a caution.<br /><br />Anonymous @5:33: Unless you have Mrs Apfel's means, perhaps you can find something bold at a consignment or thrift so it is not a costly mistake.Duchessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-9882810055476509292011-04-04T17:33:33.968-04:002011-04-04T17:33:33.968-04:00Well, I did almost buy a massive wooden bead mala ...Well, I did almost buy a massive wooden bead mala (MASSIVE) based on an Iris Apfel NYT photo, but since I'm too chicken to wear color to work perhaps I should start not by emulating these ladies, but introducing a single non black/grey color....<br /><br />Love the leopard frames, though. And I strangely want that hat with fingers though perhaps more for playing with a litter of kittens (all at once).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-7832677457141709402011-04-04T17:04:20.504-04:002011-04-04T17:04:20.504-04:00Just found your blog through Deja Pseu and watched...Just found your blog through Deja Pseu and watched the film. Thank you for posting it. I find these women and their personal styles absolutely delightful. I feel totally inspired when I see someone on the street who can express themselves so eloquently through their style choices. Bravissima ! Life is too short to live it playing by someone else's rules.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-926901395289613192011-04-03T22:30:38.689-04:002011-04-03T22:30:38.689-04:00There is really nothing that inspires me about the...There is really nothing that inspires me about these women and this is sad because I do admire Iris Apfel for being true to her own vision. But as she gets older she seems to be becoming more and more extreme. Perhaps this is something these women have in common, this need for attention and this revolt against becoming invisible. <br /><br />I have friends who can pull off this kind of look, but not me. I would feel like a clown.<br /><br />It seems very New York, or at least very metropolitan, assuming there are other cities where you could pull this off. I do consider that it might be a nobler cause than giving in to the invisible look that too many settle in to.<br /><br />Mrs. B. is wonderful and i want to be her. I think the lilac lipstick is not flattering as photographed but it might be nicer IRL. My perception may be off, but I think it is becoming more problematic to carry off that grande-dame simplicity of black clothing and stunning jewelry in the modern world. Perhaps I just live in the wrong place.Mardelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04850551308931710502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-89990570778124135882011-04-03T09:36:50.714-04:002011-04-03T09:36:50.714-04:00HB: I've seen some very flattering short cuts;...HB: I've seen some very flattering short cuts; my friend who wears a version very well says the key is, "if short over the ears there must be length to the bangs and definitely visible hair behind the ear". <br /><br />I wore a half-inch pixie for about a decade but one day saw a photo, decided it was past its best-by date.Duchessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-1364495488059952362011-04-03T01:49:03.679-04:002011-04-03T01:49:03.679-04:00Duchesse:
Thank you. I'm big on playing with e...Duchesse:<br />Thank you. I'm big on playing with elements of camp and humor while being able to move about in the business world a bit too. There's nothing more satisfying than pulling that off.<br /><br />The hair in the video is the first thing that jumped out at me! I have tested many a hairstyle and color and arrived at keeping it long and occasionally playing with color as a good medium between what would be too conservative to suit and what would be unflattering or limiting. Also, I think it's pertinent to note that more extreme style statements are different than when I was, say, 25 and could wear 1/2" long hair with a Liberty Tana lawn dress. For us ladies moving through the next phases of life, short hair in particular is hard to do well, especially when you start to add other 'edgy' style elements. <br /><br />And on "wearable art" (rings an alarm for me too) I think it cheats the art to distract from it too much. I don't know about you but if I invest in a custom piece of jewelry, a great piece of vintage, or a particularly fine jacket I do not want to wear anything else to steal attention from it.HBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-82606338732567369952011-04-02T17:44:00.543-04:002011-04-02T17:44:00.543-04:00HB: Thank you for your summary of how to temper ec...HB: Thank you for your summary of how to temper eccentric! I can relate to all your criteria and smile at the thought of you in conservative attire, then... the shoes! Re the hair, notice how many of the women in the video had short (cut up above the ear, especially) hair, which is so different with eccentric garments than a softer style.<br /><br />I revere a dash of irreverence. At the same time the earrings that look like bull's eyes do not look very good to me. Vivienne Westwood! She designs some very precise, almost austere clothes even though she often dresses as full-out eccentric. And her signature earrings are among my favourites.Duchessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-85707781365420605232011-04-02T14:58:56.669-04:002011-04-02T14:58:56.669-04:00Wonderful conversation, thank you.
Attention-seek...Wonderful conversation, thank you.<br /><br />Attention-seeking, yes. Also there is a dash of irreverence born with the accomplishment of getting older, I think. It does fascinate me that there is a recognizable 'type' adhering to artsy outfits and a certain approach to hair and makeup. That said, it can be done well by some - in those cases it seems that there are some underlying nods to classic rules of good dressing and presentation. IMO, of course.<br /><br />I definitely tend toward eccentric but work to temper it with a few criteria. I am also in a particular phase of body change/skin change that makes me particularly self-conscious, so these are all on my mind of late: 1) From my grandma and mom - remove one accessory or item of jewelry before leaving the house. 2) also from those wonderful women - good shoes! Not necessarily shoes that conform, either. I love wearing the all-black professional 'uniform' with a stunning pair of shoes, often in a color. 3) flattering shapes above all else - regardless of whimsy, artsy, or maybe the temporally-limited quality of a piece 4) quality materials. 5) be comfortable in your own own skin and outfit. On this point I think of a couple 'grande dames' of eccentricity like Zandra Rhodes or Vivienne Westwood. Neither of whom should be copied, simply admired for their own adherence to personal style that's appropriate for their lifestyles and professions. Looking at Bill Cunningham's photos is inspirational on this front.<br /><br />And 6) groom well. I wear my hair long because it's deliberately less harsh and trendy - often pulling it back simply in a braid or loose chignon. I far prefer it to a scalp-revealing spiky short 'do because it's more flattering to me. Hard-learned, by the way. Tastefully applied makeup and a good skin regimen beneath go a long way to setting off any look IMO. Sometimes I believe the overly piled *outfit* is an attempt at capturing and expressing vitality; good self-care is the path I am working at in order to accomplish that for myself. It's very conscious because I have worked in design and costuming and can easily slip into wearing something "interesting" that doesn't do me any favors quite quickly.HBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-46241900325289273502011-04-01T17:27:19.269-04:002011-04-01T17:27:19.269-04:00Susan Tiner: There are women who could wear that a...Susan Tiner: There are women who could wear that any time, and one I can think of is Liza Minelli. Congratulation on getting back into sewing!Duchessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-15920102388460174222011-04-01T15:52:49.812-04:002011-04-01T15:52:49.812-04:00The café dog! Bien sur.
It's funny, it did o...The café dog! Bien sur. <br /><br />It's funny, it did occur to me that the top might work better at Christmas time. I still think it's fun. If I can find some time to post this weekend I'll include a photo of it on the dress form.<br /><br />One other thought. Perhaps if the fabric were of higher quality I could get away with red sparkles off season?<br /><br />I'm just getting back into sewing so I didn't want to splurge on expensive fabric for the first few pieces.Susan Tinerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11900811284963063686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-45763774477734080262011-04-01T15:18:15.678-04:002011-04-01T15:18:15.678-04:00Susan Tiner: You describe perfectly the thin line ...Susan Tiner: You describe perfectly the thin line between whimsy (or "paprika") and being read-at least by some- as "Christmas tree". The coloured sparkly top might look best at holiday time; a neutral sparkle (not only black but bronze, cream or grey) can work across the seasons. The "witty dresser" mode is so fraught for me that the most I'll venture is a scarf printed with, for example, Parisien café habituées, including the café dog.Duchessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-20669841132007166872011-04-01T13:41:10.627-04:002011-04-01T13:41:10.627-04:00I'm late to the game figuring all of this out,...I'm late to the game figuring all of this out, but find the discussion intriguing. In my own little quest, I'm trying to add the "paprika" Pseu mentioned in the form of jewel-tone tops with something extra, like brilliance of tone or texture. With this in mind I sewed a ruby red top -- an inexpensive knit with sparkles. The fabric looked fun, to my eye. So I wore it to a party last weekend and someone said, you look like a Christmas tree! <br /><br />Oh well.Susan Tinerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11900811284963063686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-51177907421191620432011-04-01T10:23:40.129-04:002011-04-01T10:23:40.129-04:00Sheena: I would not call these women elegant by a ...Sheena: I would not call these women elegant by a long shot. Elegance implies grace, restraint and refinement. As you point out, harsh lipstick and harsher voices do not create an elegant image.<br /><br />They are, however, expressing themselves as individuals. "Performance art" is a useful way to think of their self-presentation, thanks! <br /><br />Who Moved My Birkin: Yes, and I have very much appreciated everyone's impressions.Duchessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-259988937905306792011-03-31T17:01:52.892-04:002011-03-31T17:01:52.892-04:00this is such an intresting conversation!this is such an intresting conversation!Who Moved my Birkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06144457109225490077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2872918251244874644.post-7654764434567529462011-03-31T15:58:01.204-04:002011-03-31T15:58:01.204-04:00I love it that these women have the courage to exp...I love it that these women have the courage to express themselves visually!They are definite, discriminating, elegant and there are lots of things I don't prefer in their outfits such as harsh lipsticks. Nonetheless they are a feast for the eyes and viewing them is like going to an art gallery or watching performance art. The voices, however, not so much.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04423867769502291162noreply@blogger.com